Comments on: Poetry Post: The Buried Life http://www.wearethehollowmen.com/2007/01/poetry-post-the-buried-life/ :::this is the way the world ends::: Tue, 10 Jan 2012 17:16:13 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.2.1 By: Ned http://www.wearethehollowmen.com/2007/01/poetry-post-the-buried-life/comment-page-1/#comment-344 Ned Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:26:40 +0000 http://www.wearethehollowmen.com/2007/shotts/poetry-post-the-buried-life/#comment-344 I would agree that Eliot's anti-semitism diminishes his art, as does Pound's or Carlyle's or Wagner's tendency towards fascism or supremacists. I neither excuse nor overlook Eliot's anit-semitism. Neither did I have a problem with Kakutani discussing what seems to be Raine's embarrassing defense of Eliot's comments. What I questioned was Kakutani choosing to end his essay on a comment on Eliot rather than on Raine. That's all. But as I said in my earlier comment, perhaps it was fair. I don't know. Perhaps it says more about me. Perhaps my naive, protestant mind still has problems accepting heroes with flaws. Either way, I think we can all admit that it is disappointing. Maybe it comes down to an issue of a glass half-empty or half-full. At any rate, I suppose whether or not Eliot is read in fifty years and considered great, depends very little on what I say, do, or think. I would agree that Eliot’s anti-semitism diminishes his art, as does Pound’s or Carlyle’s or Wagner’s tendency towards fascism or supremacists. I neither excuse nor overlook Eliot’s anit-semitism. Neither did I have a problem with Kakutani discussing what seems to be Raine’s embarrassing defense of Eliot’s comments. What I questioned was Kakutani choosing to end his essay on a comment on Eliot rather than on Raine. That’s all. But as I said in my earlier comment, perhaps it was fair. I don’t know.

Perhaps it says more about me. Perhaps my naive, protestant mind still has problems accepting heroes with flaws. Either way, I think we can all admit that it is disappointing. Maybe it comes down to an issue of a glass half-empty or half-full. At any rate, I suppose whether or not Eliot is read in fifty years and considered great, depends very little on what I say, do, or think.

]]> By: Shotts http://www.wearethehollowmen.com/2007/01/poetry-post-the-buried-life/comment-page-1/#comment-341 Shotts Tue, 23 Jan 2007 03:46:43 +0000 http://www.wearethehollowmen.com/2007/shotts/poetry-post-the-buried-life/#comment-341 Ned, I assume your disappointment of the end of the essay has to do with Kakutani's discussion of Eliot's anti-Semitism and Raine's defense of it. Eliot's anti-Semitism is what's disappointing, ultimately, and it would have been a glaring omission for Kakutani not to discuss it, since it's been a widely discussed issue (as has Raine's rather odd and strained apologist stance on it). Part of the very "buried life" theme that Raine seems to suggest in his book is the idea of human flaw. Eliot was a deeply flawed human being. That is part of his personality and part of his art. But whether that diminishes his achievement is up for debate, and I'd guess that Ned feels it does not, ultimately. I'm not so sure, myself, since in Eliot's case, his anti-Semitism now seems so blatant, and since it does enter into the poetry, essays, and drama and thus becomes inseparable from the artistry. --Shotts Ned, I assume your disappointment of the end of the essay has to do with Kakutani’s discussion of Eliot’s anti-Semitism and Raine’s defense of it. Eliot’s anti-Semitism is what’s disappointing, ultimately, and it would have been a glaring omission for Kakutani not to discuss it, since it’s been a widely discussed issue (as has Raine’s rather odd and strained apologist stance on it).

Part of the very “buried life” theme that Raine seems to suggest in his book is the idea of human flaw. Eliot was a deeply flawed human being. That is part of his personality and part of his art. But whether that diminishes his achievement is up for debate, and I’d guess that Ned feels it does not, ultimately. I’m not so sure, myself, since in Eliot’s case, his anti-Semitism now seems so blatant, and since it does enter into the poetry, essays, and drama and thus becomes inseparable from the artistry.

–Shotts

]]> By: Ned http://www.wearethehollowmen.com/2007/01/poetry-post-the-buried-life/comment-page-1/#comment-340 Ned Mon, 22 Jan 2007 23:26:00 +0000 http://www.wearethehollowmen.com/2007/shotts/poetry-post-the-buried-life/#comment-340 I read the poetry post last night and came back to it to see if my initial feelings held. I have great respect for Kakutani who has written some great reviews in the past. I also acknowledge the dangers of idol-worship, which was part of the theme of Tobias Wolff's, Old School, which I finished before the semester started. I also acknowledge, as Jeff has pointed out in an earlier email, that we live in an age of genocide and ethnic cleansing, and any tendency toward this kind of behavior should be fought against. I was a bit disappointed by the ending of the review, or the way it ended, though. Perhaps it was fair, but it seemed cynical to end the review that way. This, of course, does not diminish my appreciattion for the post. I read the poetry post last night and came back to it to see if my initial feelings held. I have great respect for Kakutani who has written some great reviews in the past. I also acknowledge the dangers of idol-worship, which was part of the theme of Tobias Wolff’s, Old School, which I finished before the semester started. I also acknowledge, as Jeff has pointed out in an earlier email, that we live in an age of genocide and ethnic cleansing, and any tendency toward this kind of behavior should be fought against. I was a bit disappointed by the ending of the review, or the way it ended, though. Perhaps it was fair, but it seemed cynical to end the review that way. This, of course, does not diminish my appreciattion for the post.

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